A friend of mine earlier this month uploaded a trailer of a documentary on the people fighting
against the police atrocities during Terrorism.
The comments on the page suddenly
took an awkward turn and I found myself in the middle of an argument which I
have avoided with anyone till date.
How I hope that I could win over
people with Logic!
I present some exerepts of the
debate after changing the names to keep the privacy secured.
(Friend 1) Since Independce of India Sikhs Lived n Living a Life of
Slaves with an Un-ability to Practice Their Religion Freely - Though India
Claims to be a Secular State. Story of Slavery is Long and Still Remains Untold
to Large Masses who Think a Sikh is a Militant. No One is Born Militant
but Ignorance Hypocrisy n Double Standards Forces One to Pick a Weapon to
Obtain their Basic Rights.
Basically Indian state had and have
targeted and always trying to eliminate minority religion, majority -Hindus
(RSS, Congress), and make India a Hindu dominated nation. From inception of
free India Minorities like Sikhs n Muslims have targetted and always treated as vote bank.
(Friend 2) I would disagree to that, Friend
1 bhai.If the govt treatment would have
been based on religion then 95% naxalites would not have been hindus in the red
corridor states spread over 5 states. And I dont think there are as many
muslims refugees form Kashmir as Hindus. There are more Muslims affected in Gujrat
than any other religion's people. People are getting diverted by religious
tactics which dont matter at all to politicians who just bother about money and
power. Many BJP/congress guys who talk bitter religious tone have other
region's family members in their houses. They talk division but practice things
differently.
When the corruption think of their own interests than the Nation.. they use religion, caste as planks to play. Today BJP accuses Congress of appeasing muslims and Congress accuses BJP of anti muslim. finally none of them works for people but themselves, just showcasing religion as a facade.
When the corruption think of their own interests than the Nation.. they use religion, caste as planks to play. Today BJP accuses Congress of appeasing muslims and Congress accuses BJP of anti muslim. finally none of them works for people but themselves, just showcasing religion as a facade.
(Friend 1) Friend 2, even if I agree with you on
Kashmir issue - Hindus are affected in 1 state vs Sikhs are tragetted in
several states
Punjab
Haryana
Delhi
UP
Bihar
Gujarat
AP
Maharashtra .... etc
e.g. in AP Gurdwara was burnt a month ago WHY? Because of Telangana issue, did Sikhs divided the state? NO
6 months ago in Rajasthan sacred Guru Granth Sahib was burnt iby Rajputs - you can confirm via Internet.
2 months ago your own fav AAP candiadate mocked on Sikh Priest n Gurdwara in front of the public gathering.
Canadian MP admitted publicly Indian state financially sponsor Canadian Media to tarnish image of Sikhs.
We still fight for justice against 84 Riots even though Muslims or Hindus get that within months or few years after an unfortunate incident.
Like what Manish Saini said you comment n arguement abt Red Corridor is baseless Hindus are fighting against the supremacy of their internal peer.
LETS PUT IN THIS WAY HINDUS AFFECTED IN TERROR STATE RIDDE. ARE SEEN BY YOU BUT NOT SIKHS BECAUSE WE ARE MINORITY BUT THIS MINORITY GAVE YOU A FREE NATION, BECAUSE OF SIKHS GIRU YOU ARE STILL A PART OF 3RD LARGEST RELIGION ELSE YOU WOULD HAVE BORN AS RAHIM ALI ...
WE ARGUE WHEN DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT REALITY.
Punjab
Haryana
Delhi
UP
Bihar
Gujarat
AP
Maharashtra .... etc
e.g. in AP Gurdwara was burnt a month ago WHY? Because of Telangana issue, did Sikhs divided the state? NO
6 months ago in Rajasthan sacred Guru Granth Sahib was burnt iby Rajputs - you can confirm via Internet.
2 months ago your own fav AAP candiadate mocked on Sikh Priest n Gurdwara in front of the public gathering.
Canadian MP admitted publicly Indian state financially sponsor Canadian Media to tarnish image of Sikhs.
We still fight for justice against 84 Riots even though Muslims or Hindus get that within months or few years after an unfortunate incident.
Like what Manish Saini said you comment n arguement abt Red Corridor is baseless Hindus are fighting against the supremacy of their internal peer.
LETS PUT IN THIS WAY HINDUS AFFECTED IN TERROR STATE RIDDE. ARE SEEN BY YOU BUT NOT SIKHS BECAUSE WE ARE MINORITY BUT THIS MINORITY GAVE YOU A FREE NATION, BECAUSE OF SIKHS GIRU YOU ARE STILL A PART OF 3RD LARGEST RELIGION ELSE YOU WOULD HAVE BORN AS RAHIM ALI ...
WE ARGUE WHEN DON'T WANT TO ACCEPT REALITY.
(Manish Saini) Friend 1, painting everything with the same
brush would be an error. Your argument is what would please the perpetrators
the most. Cornwallis started the divide and rule policy and we are still in his
loop after 2 centuries. Names have changed today from Cornwallis to Badal,
Mayawati, Mulayam, Modi....but the intent is the same.
Why were the kids in the trailer
you shared killed? Did any of the killed belonged to an affluent political
family.....or just an affluent family? Be it the Kashmiri Pandits, Sikhs,
Muslims, recently Christians or be it the Hindus of the red corridor, there are
two things in common –
1. Most of them were either of
middle class or of poorer families.
2. Everyone's suffering was a
political gain for someone.
(Friend 1) Manish Veer Jee 84 Riots (Carnage) were aimed to
massacre Sikh and till date Sikhs are thriving to see justice delivered but all
in vain, wait has been so long that either victim have passed away or tired of
making monthly trips to Courts.
Forget about
Badal clan for a second, what congress have given to Sikhs? Nothing, no justice
rather they rub salt on our wounds by giving MP tickets to perpetrators,
perpetrators roam free and enjoy all worldly luxuries. Young generation of 80’s
and 90’s was not killed by Badal but by Congress in the name of terrorism to
completely extinct and destroy Sikh Roots.
Now if we come to Badal clan they are puppets in the hand of RSS whose propaganda is to portray Sikhs as Hindus. Definition of Hindus living in UP and Gujarat –
Now if we come to Badal clan they are puppets in the hand of RSS whose propaganda is to portray Sikhs as Hindus. Definition of Hindus living in UP and Gujarat –
A Sikhism is
not a standalone religion rather a armored Hindu who’s duty is to protect Hindu
community is a Sikh. I can quote and give examples of affected Sikhs who
belonged to upper class due to their religion – Sikh.
The reason
behind 84 riots was not middle class or upper class aim was not completely
vanish Sikhs from India. Sikhs have been targeted by Hindus or Hindu state
because of these two facts
1. India got independence because of Sikhs.
2. Hindus are in existence of Sikhs.
These two facts are well acclaimed around the globe, when you get recruited in UK & US army they teach you about the courage and valor of Sikhs.
Any atrocities in your religion are not our problem as we are dealing with our own against Indian State. Indian state have always targeted Sikhs to prove them they are Hindus and if we accept this we are welcomed to live and practice our religion freely in India.
I would ask you to visit this site to see how Hindus are hurting our feelings and sentiments?
1. India got independence because of Sikhs.
2. Hindus are in existence of Sikhs.
These two facts are well acclaimed around the globe, when you get recruited in UK & US army they teach you about the courage and valor of Sikhs.
Any atrocities in your religion are not our problem as we are dealing with our own against Indian State. Indian state have always targeted Sikhs to prove them they are Hindus and if we accept this we are welcomed to live and practice our religion freely in India.
I would ask you to visit this site to see how Hindus are hurting our feelings and sentiments?
Lala Jagat
Narain founder of Punjab Kesari said this in Amritsar and you ask me to call
India my nation.
“Hindu Hindu-Bhai Bhai”
”Kacha Kara Kirpan , Ihnu BheJo Pakistan”
”Dukki Tikki Khahen nahin deni,Sir te pagri rahen nahin deni”
In year 2006 when I was boarding my flight to USA from Delhi, an Indian immigration officer told bluntly on face in front the passenger “we have been asked to thoroughly search and enquire any Sikhs from Punjab because most of them are related to Terrorists”
We have never been treated citizens of main stream of India on contrary always have been seen as criminals, terrorists, and second class citizens. Talking about compassion in Sikhs - we are compassionate that’s why Hindus are still living peacefully.
If you guys still have any argument or point to make call me at +1 713 xxx xxxx.
“Hindu Hindu-Bhai Bhai”
”Kacha Kara Kirpan , Ihnu BheJo Pakistan”
”Dukki Tikki Khahen nahin deni,Sir te pagri rahen nahin deni”
In year 2006 when I was boarding my flight to USA from Delhi, an Indian immigration officer told bluntly on face in front the passenger “we have been asked to thoroughly search and enquire any Sikhs from Punjab because most of them are related to Terrorists”
We have never been treated citizens of main stream of India on contrary always have been seen as criminals, terrorists, and second class citizens. Talking about compassion in Sikhs - we are compassionate that’s why Hindus are still living peacefully.
If you guys still have any argument or point to make call me at +1 713 xxx xxxx.
(Manish Saini) "Few of the ideologies
of intolerance are based on simple lies or fictions for which no evidence
exists." Eric Hobsbawm.
By accepting the congress's hand in
the masacre of 84, you accept my point that the perpetrators of divide and rule
policy are all politicians of the Cornwallis lineage of ideology. Even Master
Tara Singh was no saint. He was the one who brought the concept of Khalistan
only in 1940s after he saw Congress tilting to give in to the demands of Muslim
separatists. What was the reason for this?
After not succeeding the Akalis
took the idea and just kept on pestering it and when Nagaland was formed, the
idea took steam.
With Bangladesh divided, Pakistan
looked at this opportunity now to divide India and supported this movement.
Before Pakistan could have materialized its actions, Congress divided Punjab into
3 states asking Hindus to move into Himachal or Haryana. Hardly anyone moved.
What is the reason?
Massacre of 84 was lead by all
Congress politicians. There is indisputable evidence on massacre of 2002 being
lead by BJP politicians. BJP brings over the Ram temple issue in 80s when there
is no evidence of Ram being born; and comes to the parliament with amazing
numbers.
Talking about RSS, you are again
painting everyone with the same brush! Policemen accused of the killings in the
trailer are mostly Sikhs. Some have committed suicide. Some have run away to
foreign countries.
Minorities across the globe have
been vulnerable- be it the Muslims in US or the Jews in Germany. But Sikhs in
India have an extremely enviable position as elder brothers in every house
(Hindu or Sikh). Elders are more patient and tolerant and that is what the need
of the hour is.
(Friend 1) Divide
and Rule Policy - In which two parties (A & are put in a
fight by third party who hurts the religious or cultural sentiments of both,
like what British did to Hindus and Muslims.
Now if you examine 84 - what
happened in 84 were not Riots it was Massacre or Genocide to extinct the
presence of Sikhs from India not to divide our presence from India. Sikhs
never tried to incapacitate, sabotage or cripple any religious or cultural
sentiments of Hindus before or after 84. Why 84? Why Genocide was named as
Riots? Why Sikhs were burnt alive?
A word riot has been politically
& strategically tagged with 84 to drag innocent Sikhs and blamed for
disturbance and instability. Did we gain anything? We were the only affected in
84, not like Gujarat where Hindus and Muslims lost equally. Sikhs are slaves in
India -
1. Till 2012 Sikhs were married under Hindu act, Anand Karaj act was passed in 2012 after a long struggle.
1. Till 2012 Sikhs were married under Hindu act, Anand Karaj act was passed in 2012 after a long struggle.
2. Per the constitution of India any Baptized
Sikh can carry two (2) swords one (1) 6 inch long and second long one – except
Sikhs no other religion can practice this right. Why Simranjit Singh Mann was
not allowed not enter parliament with his article of faith?
On contrary same is allowed by Canadian or UK parliament so a Sikh can carry his/her article of faith in Parliament without any hindrance or objection.
On contrary same is allowed by Canadian or UK parliament so a Sikh can carry his/her article of faith in Parliament without any hindrance or objection.
The oppression of Indian Government
in 84 till date has not been justified.
Congress divided state 3 times to
throw Sikhs in pockets where they can’t group to discuss their problems,
issues, growth, and sustainability.
Congress has always used Sikhs when
required to protect their nationality, e.g. Purposely Lal Bahadur Shastri moves
Sikhs to Kutch so they can cultivate and farm the barren land and protect the
vulnerable border from Pakistan now when the armed forces have developed
capability to protect their Bharat Mata those family have been kicked out by
snatching there land.
http://www.sikh24.com/.../...
http://www.sikh24.com/.../...
Now let’s discuss treatment of
minorities by USA or Germany
1. USA
US Government gives all protection to Muslims or Sikhs they have no hidden propaganda against Muslims living inside USA. What’s happening in US against Muslims and Sikhs in USA is sheer ignorance? Broadly whats happen internally is RACISM not a preparation of GENOCIDE.
Govt support Sikhs a lot because of their contribution to US heritage, economy, and society. Any act against Sikhs is treated swiftly and justice delivered quickly. What happened at Wisconsin Creek with Sikhs? US gave green cards, accommodation, and jobs to the siblings of Shaheed Sikh Priests vs in India Sikhs are still awaiting justice.
2. Germany
Jews were massacred by Germans – Nazis in the same way like Sikhs in 84. Nazis hated Jewish because of their achievements in Science, Technology, & Business vs Sikhs were and are hated by Hindus because of their courage and hard work.
Germans compensated and compensating Jewish till date and acknowledge the fact act of terrorism by Nazis against Jewish was no less than a Genocide, discussing about Hitler in public is treated as crime in Germany.
Vs.
Indian State till date has not and do not want to deliver any verdict against the perpetrators, ironically they are treated as the PRINCE of Indian Congress and politics.
What happened in Ayodhaya? It is simple act of barbarism of Indian Hindus against minorities.
Sikhs in India have an extremely enviable position as elder brothers in every house (Hindu or Sikh) – Galib Dil Ko Behlane Ke Liye Yeh Khayal Acha Hai. Rest, give me your number we can talk over phone in detail if feel like I am open for a debate on this.
1. USA
US Government gives all protection to Muslims or Sikhs they have no hidden propaganda against Muslims living inside USA. What’s happening in US against Muslims and Sikhs in USA is sheer ignorance? Broadly whats happen internally is RACISM not a preparation of GENOCIDE.
Govt support Sikhs a lot because of their contribution to US heritage, economy, and society. Any act against Sikhs is treated swiftly and justice delivered quickly. What happened at Wisconsin Creek with Sikhs? US gave green cards, accommodation, and jobs to the siblings of Shaheed Sikh Priests vs in India Sikhs are still awaiting justice.
2. Germany
Jews were massacred by Germans – Nazis in the same way like Sikhs in 84. Nazis hated Jewish because of their achievements in Science, Technology, & Business vs Sikhs were and are hated by Hindus because of their courage and hard work.
Germans compensated and compensating Jewish till date and acknowledge the fact act of terrorism by Nazis against Jewish was no less than a Genocide, discussing about Hitler in public is treated as crime in Germany.
Vs.
Indian State till date has not and do not want to deliver any verdict against the perpetrators, ironically they are treated as the PRINCE of Indian Congress and politics.
What happened in Ayodhaya? It is simple act of barbarism of Indian Hindus against minorities.
Sikhs in India have an extremely enviable position as elder brothers in every house (Hindu or Sikh) – Galib Dil Ko Behlane Ke Liye Yeh Khayal Acha Hai. Rest, give me your number we can talk over phone in detail if feel like I am open for a debate on this.
(October 10,
2013)—Members of the local Sikh community living in the Bhuj area o...See More
(Manish Saini) Friend 1, there is no doubt
about the massacre in 84 and I have never even questioned it. But there are 2
generalizations you are making to which I am completely not in agreement with -
(1) Sikhs are slaves in India - This is a very absurd comment given that
there is no private or public service where Sikhs don't have a leadership
position in India. (2) Other countries treat their minorities very well - In
terms of a democratic existence, US has been there for over 100 years more than
India. They had their problems of Slavery followed by Klu Klux Klan (US RSS)
for a long time. What you see now is a continuous improvement over 150 years
which is still on.
Following your comment on the Anand
Karaj Act - For me, acts like Hindu marriage act, Muslim Personal act are all
political gimmicks. When constitution was being formed, Ambedkar along with
Nehru brought in a single act to govern all marriages (of all religions). But
because of a political game of each one's vote bank, the act was abolished
(reffer to Munshi Papers) and divided into multiple personal acts.
What you say - "Galib Dil Ko
Behlane Ke Liye Yeh Khayal Acha Hai"........dear, half of my family is
Sikh and the other half Hindu, even though I am a Hindu (by birth but an
atheist by belief), my sister is married into a Sikh family. If you look around
in your area, you will find in-numerous examples like these.
Every link which you have shared in
the argument is POLITICAL" and is not representative of what the majority
thinks (though I have no way to prove it).
Why does RSS play a hymm of Hindus
and wants to suppress other religions? Because the majority is Hindu and their
theory is to be in power with the help of the majority. Read the textbooks of
their schools and you would see a completely twisted history and
mythology!
Why does SP is in favour of
Muslims? Muslims are the most backward (in UP in total numbers) and are easily
swayed by simple benefits given to them and anyone wooing them in UP is bound
to be in power. BSP does the same thing with the scheduled castes. Though the
party came in genesis with good intentions of fighting for the rights of
backwards has got into the typical power struggle in politics and is now a
puppet of only a few leaders. Pick up Shiv Sena or MNS who divide on the basis
of regionalist. Pick up DMK, who divide on the basis of origin.
If you track down the rise of every
party in India, you shall realize that every Political party is thriving on the
Cornwallis concept and what worries me is that they are being extremely
successful in doing it.
We can talk and argue on this topic
for any number of hours but the fact is that religion as a topic is really not
my cup of tea and is a topic which really puts me off for I believe in none.
But I am happy to discuss this out as I am extremely worried with your comments.
I hope to put across arguments which might
find favour with you. 9320722451
(Friend 1) Like
other Hindus and Indian State you have been evasive to answer following
questions, I am repeating them
1.
Indian
state had and have targeted and always trying to eliminate minority religion,
majority -Hindus (RSS, Congress), and make India a Hindu dominated nation. From
inception of free India Minorities like Sikhs n Muslims have targeted and
always treated as vote bank.
2.
Hindus are
affected in 1 state vs Sikhs are tragetted in several states
Punjab
Haryana
Delhi
UP
Bihar
Gujarat
AP
Maharashtra .... etc
e.g. in AP Gurdwara was burnt a month ago WHY? Because of Telangana issue, did Sikhs divided the state? NO
Punjab
Haryana
Delhi
UP
Bihar
Gujarat
AP
Maharashtra .... etc
e.g. in AP Gurdwara was burnt a month ago WHY? Because of Telangana issue, did Sikhs divided the state? NO
3.
6 months
ago in Rajasthan sacred Guru Granth Sahib was burnt iby Rajputs - you can
confirm via Internet.
4.
2 months
ago your own fav AAP candiadate mocked on Sikh Priest n Gurdwara in front of
the public gathering.
5.
Canadian MP
admitted publicly Indian state financially sponsor Canadian Media to tarnish
image of Sikhs.
6.
We still
fight for justice against 84 Riots even though Muslims or Hindus get that
within months or few years after an unfortunate incident. 84 Riot (Carnage) was
aimed to massacre Sikh and till date Sikhs are thriving to see justice
delivered but all in vain, wait has been so long that either victims have
passed away or tired of making monthly trips to Courts.
7.
I would ask
you to visit this site to see how Hindus are hurting our feelings and
sentiments?
http://www.info-sikh.com/PageRSS1.html
http://www.info-sikh.com/PageRSS1.html
8.
Lala Jagat
Narain founder of Punjab Kesari said this in Amritsar and you ask me to call
India my nation.
“Hindu Hindu-Bhai Bhai”
”Kacha Kara Kirpan , Ihnu BheJo Pakistan”
”Dukki Tikki Khahen nahin deni,Sir te pagri rahen nahin deni”
“Hindu Hindu-Bhai Bhai”
”Kacha Kara Kirpan , Ihnu BheJo Pakistan”
”Dukki Tikki Khahen nahin deni,Sir te pagri rahen nahin deni”
9.
In year
2006 when I was boarding my flight to USA from Delhi, an Indian immigration
officer told bluntly on face infront the passenger “we have been asked to
thoroughly search and enquire any Sikhs from Punjab because most of them are
related to Terrorists”
10.
Divide and
Rule Policy
In which two parties (A & are put in a fight by third party who hurts the religious or cultural sentiments of both, like what British did to Hindus and Muslims.
Now if you examine 84 - what happened in 84 were not Riots it was Massacre or Genocide to extinct the presence of Sikhs from India not to divide our presence from India.
Sikhs never tried to incapacitate, sabotage or cripple any religious or cultural sentiments of Hindus before or after 84. Why 84? Why Genocide was named as Riots? Why Sikhs were burnt alive?
A word riot has been politically & strategically tagged with 84 to drag innocent Sikhs and blamed for disturbance and instability. Did we gain anything? We were the only affected in 84, not like Gujarat where Hindus and Muslims lost equally
In which two parties (A & are put in a fight by third party who hurts the religious or cultural sentiments of both, like what British did to Hindus and Muslims.
Now if you examine 84 - what happened in 84 were not Riots it was Massacre or Genocide to extinct the presence of Sikhs from India not to divide our presence from India.
Sikhs never tried to incapacitate, sabotage or cripple any religious or cultural sentiments of Hindus before or after 84. Why 84? Why Genocide was named as Riots? Why Sikhs were burnt alive?
A word riot has been politically & strategically tagged with 84 to drag innocent Sikhs and blamed for disturbance and instability. Did we gain anything? We were the only affected in 84, not like Gujarat where Hindus and Muslims lost equally
11.
Till 2012
Sikhs were married under Hindu act, Anand Karaj act was passed in 2012 after a
long struggle.
12.
Per the
constitution of India any Baptized Sikh can carry two (2) swords one (1) 6 inch
long and second long one – except Sikhs no other religion can practice this
right. Why Simranjit Singh Mann was not allowed not enter parliament with his
article of faith?
On contrary same is allowed by Canadian or UK parliament so a Sikh can carry his/her article of faith in Parliament without any hindrance or objection.
On contrary same is allowed by Canadian or UK parliament so a Sikh can carry his/her article of faith in Parliament without any hindrance or objection.
13.
Congress
has always used Sikhs when required to protect their nationality, e.g.
Purposely Lal Bahadur Shastri moves Sikhs to Kutch so they can cultivate and
farm the barren land and protect the vulnerable border from Pakistan now when
the armed forces have developed capability to protect their Bharat Mata those
family have been kicked out by snatching there land.
14.
Jews were
massacred by Germans – Nazis in the same way like Sikhs in 84. Nazis hated
Jewish because of their achievements in Science, Technology, & Business vs
Sikhs were and are hated by Hindus because of their courage and hard
work.
Germans compensated and compensating Jewish till date and acknowledge the fact act of terrorism by Nazis against Jewish was no less than a Genocide, discussing about Hitler in public is treated as crime in Germany.
Vs. Indian State till date has not and do not want to deliver any verdict against the perpetrators, ironically they are treated as the PRINCE of Indian Congress and politics.
I HAVE SAME ARGUMENT THE DAY JUSTICE GETS DELIVERED AND PERPETRATORS PUT BEHINDS BARS WITH RELIGIOUS FREEDOM TO SIKHS THAT DAY WILL BRING NEW BEGINNING TO HINDU-SIKHS RELATIONS.
THE DAY INDIAN STATE WILL START TREATING SIKHS AT PAR WITH OTHERS THAT DAY WILL SEE THE BEGINNING OF HARMONY AND SECULARISM IN BHARAT.
Germans compensated and compensating Jewish till date and acknowledge the fact act of terrorism by Nazis against Jewish was no less than a Genocide, discussing about Hitler in public is treated as crime in Germany.
Vs. Indian State till date has not and do not want to deliver any verdict against the perpetrators, ironically they are treated as the PRINCE of Indian Congress and politics.
I HAVE SAME ARGUMENT THE DAY JUSTICE GETS DELIVERED AND PERPETRATORS PUT BEHINDS BARS WITH RELIGIOUS FREEDOM TO SIKHS THAT DAY WILL BRING NEW BEGINNING TO HINDU-SIKHS RELATIONS.
THE DAY INDIAN STATE WILL START TREATING SIKHS AT PAR WITH OTHERS THAT DAY WILL SEE THE BEGINNING OF HARMONY AND SECULARISM IN BHARAT.
www.info-sikh.com The recent announcement by the VHP of putting portraits of
Guru Gobind Singh Ji ...See More
Also throw some light on RSS agenda
against Sikh belief.
Manish Saini Ku
Kak Clan is not sponsored by Democrats or Republicans vs Bajrang Dal, RSS,
& Shiv Sena are publicly supported by BJP which pose more danger to
Secularism. I think you try to compare Apples with Oranges.
Accept it was Genocide deliver
justice establish equal rights to build better Bharat not Hindustan.
(Friend 3) we
condemn Nazi killings, we condemn 911 then what happened to our own community
that we were so in bread with.. Why r ppl so scared to condemn 1984 riots...
For God's sake Gandhi was a politician, just like every other politician she
had to make her politics gains, why r we fighting over this, lets just accept
it was a genocide, planned by govt and no religious body
(Manish Saini) Dear Friend 3, Creating and
quoting websites is not the only way to protest. I am attaching a link (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...) for your reference. Also I would suggest a book by
Jarnail Singh(I accuse) on Sikh riots which will quote numerous examples where
hindus helped or tried to help (sometimes in vain).
articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com
NEW DELHI: A witness,
who lost his three brothers during 1984 anti-Sikh riots, on Wednesday told a
trial court that a Hindu man was arrested by police for providing shelter to
Sikhs during the...
Friend 1, RSS is not a
representative organizations of Hindus and I strongly resist against getting
quoted in the same breath. This sentiment is of a majority and not a minority.
I agree with both of you when you
say that the Justice is not delivered after even 30 years. Reason has been
elaborated by numerous NGOs, articles and books. The witness has been sabotaged
repeatedly by Sajjan Kumar, Jagdish Titler and their political associates.
I am sure the fight is long but I
am also a believer that the Justice will be served. On anti Sikh riots I would
rest my case over here and would definitely revist once it is served.
Friend 1's point 1 to 8 are a
typical case of eliminating a National minority in an area where it would have
been in a numerical majority to turn the political tables. You can dig into
what happened in Ayodhya, Godhara and for that matter even in Trilokpuri.
Please refer (http://en.wikipedia.org/...) and you would understand as to why
Trilokpuri was at the centre of 1984 riots (I am sure you are aware of HKL
Bhagat's role). A little political research into each contituency where
massacres happened in 1984, 2002 or even recently in UP will tell you the same
story. Hence my emphasis on Divide and rule.
en.wikipedia.org
East Delhi Lok Sabha
constituency is one of the 7 Lok Sabha (parliamentary) cons...See More
(Manish Saini) I have no argument against your point number 9. Outside
Punjab, I believe that there are very strong myths about Punjabis as a whole. I
in my past 15 years outside Punjab have encountered multiple people who believe
that I am a Sikh because I am from Punjab.(I never mind that). But
generalizations is a fact across all walks of life. positive and negative. I
believe marketing as a subject has already taught this to us in detail. What we
need is a strong marketing campaign against it.
Point 11. I am
dead against individual personal acts and am not in favour of either a Hindu
Marriage act or a Anand karaj Act. India should have a single act for all its
citizens irrespective of beliefs.
Point 12. It is
more to do with the interpretation of the constitution by an individual and I
am sure he would be the guard with little knowledge of what we are debating.
Simran Jit Singh Mann did raise a media protest to prevent any such further
happenings. I am not aware if it has happened again.
Point number 13 is
extremely twisted. Even before independence, there was a Sikh regiment which
played a crucial role in many wars. History of the regiment is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_Regiment). There is no point in belittling
the sacrifice of our gallant soldiers.
en.wikipedia.org
The Sikh Regiment is
a 19 battalion strong, infantry regiment of the Indian Army, drawing a bulk of
its recruits from the Sikh community. The first battalion of the regiment was
officially raised just before the annexation of the Sikh Empire on August 1,
1846, by the British Empire. It is currently…
For your point 14,
I can discuss the third Reich and its rise but that is not the point. I agree
with your point on massacre of 1984 and strongly want the perpetrators
including Titler, Sajjan Kumar and HKL Bhagat(already dead) to be brough to
justice.
If a child was
saved during terrorism by sending him away to another country because the
parents feared that he would be picked away either by the terrorists or by the
Police, its been a gross failure of the state in carrying out its duty. It is
liable for such individuals to feel alienated. And such circumstances also
makes one aware that if you don't rise to protect your rights in your own
country, you cannot do it any other country. This is the only reason why people
are fighting against these atrocities and not running away. I personally salute
these fighters and in spirit support these causes and would do my best to
support and promote them in my capacity.
(Friend 1) 1. Yet RSS is buttress by BJP vs Ku
Klux Klan is not supported by Democrats or Republicans
2. 30 years is not short span – when responsible person like you say I have faith in system and justice will be served, I ask you to put yourself in same shoes will you or any of your family member will have any energy left to await justice. Till date perpetrators are shielded by Congress from judicial action and ironically all reports/enquires are sham which does not prove them guilty or CBI conclusions against them are legit.
3. I partly agree with you on Marriage Act – At first place it should not have had happened, secondly if took place why certificate of Sikhs have to have a label of Hindu Marriage Act. Fair and unbiase parent will equally distribute wealth and rights.
2. 30 years is not short span – when responsible person like you say I have faith in system and justice will be served, I ask you to put yourself in same shoes will you or any of your family member will have any energy left to await justice. Till date perpetrators are shielded by Congress from judicial action and ironically all reports/enquires are sham which does not prove them guilty or CBI conclusions against them are legit.
3. I partly agree with you on Marriage Act – At first place it should not have had happened, secondly if took place why certificate of Sikhs have to have a label of Hindu Marriage Act. Fair and unbiase parent will equally distribute wealth and rights.
4. Point 13 is not
extremely twisted India has not delivered and given due respect to Sikh Gallant
Soldiers like UK – watch below such beaviour is not prevalent or anticipated
from India Army
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XIZDj9hiWc
5. 84 killed 30,000 Sikhs, 300,000 got displaced, and 1000 Gurdwaras burnt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XIZDj9hiWc
5. 84 killed 30,000 Sikhs, 300,000 got displaced, and 1000 Gurdwaras burnt.
BBC Program,
Remembrance - The Sikh Story Full program, first aired on the 9NOV2010. Documentary
examining why followers of the Sikh religion were marked out...
I await for the
day when hypocrite and double faced Indian Government will acknowledge there
inhuman act against Sikhs. Further the day Indian Citizens will come forward to
accept there Atrocities against Sikhs that day one will rise above there ego
proving there souls are still alive, till that date the fight for separate
Homeland will continue to obtain freedom from the land of Hindus.
(Manish Saini) Where would you like this homeland to be? Put it anywhere on the map of the world and you shall find More Sikhs out of that selected part than inside. The theory of a separate homeland is as flawed as was that of Pakistan. Jinnah never thought of how the Muslims of UP and Andhra would exist if a North western Province was carved out. Show me a practical solution to your demand and I shall agree with you.
How would a
terrorist organization blatantly kill people in day light without a Political
support? Please read through the Klu Klux Klan History - (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ku_Klux_Klan). The first members of the Klan
were exclusively Democrats."the Klan was a military force serving the
interests of the Democratic party" - Eric Foner.
en.wikipedia.org
The Ku Klux Klan
(KKK), informal
ly known as the Klan or the "Hooded Order", is the name of three
distinct past and present far-right[7][8][9][10] organizations in the United
States, which have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white
supremacy, white nationalism, and anti-immigration,…
I would also
advice you to read about Eugenics - (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics). This was a theory on which Klu Klux Klan was based and
US funded researches of Eugenics till as late as 1930s. But by then the
Frankenstein of Eugenics - Hitler was born and US had to save its face and dump
the theory and researches. That is how the downfall of Klu Klux klan started.
en.wikipedia.org
Eugenics
(/juːˈdʒɛnɪks/; from Greekeu, meaning "good/well", and -genēs,
meaning "born") is the theory and practice of
improving the genetic quality of the human population.[2][3] It is a social
philosophy advocating the improvement of human genetic traits through the
promotion of higher reproduction...
About 30 years -
Yes its an agonizing time and that is what we need to fight for. Indian state
(from its independence) has been doing everything from running business,
airlines etc and thus loosing focus on what it is supposed to do best - Create
Laws and protect the interest of people. In such circumstances, people
with power misutilize the power and play with peoples lives. Why should we only
talk about 84 here. What about the Bhopal Gas tragedy whose families are
suffering equally. The current problem of our Judicial system has been
discussed and elaborated innumerable times but no one in power wants to solve
it. Because it is in their Benefit.
About your point
3. Why do Muslims have had a Muslim personal Act as old as 1937? Because India's
first democratic government was formed in 1936 and Muslims were a bigger vote
bank. The politics of Religion is what British taught us and we are still in
the loop. When you demand a separate homeland, Cornwallis smiles in his grave.
Dear Friend 1, I
watched the BBC biography with quiet intent. My observations - 1. In the first
7 minutes, the narrator says that the Britishers when faced with the might of
Sikhs in India played the strategy of getting them on their side instead of
fighting with them (DIVIDED WE FALL and we did fell). 2. In the next 7 miuntes
he also talked about how the Indian Sikhs felt betrayed by the jallianWaala
Massacre in 1919 even after their innuerous contributions to the Empire.
I am pleased that
the documentary talks about the respect which these soldiers got across the
Empire. I would also recommend you to read the book by General VK Singh - (...See More
Leadership In The
Indian Army: Biographies Of Twelve Soldiers First Edition - Buy Leadership In The
Indian Army: Biographies Of Twelve Soldiers First Edition by singh, maj gen v
k|author; only for Rs. 546.25 at
The treatment of
overall retired defense staff by our government is currently Pathetic - Be it
Army, Navy, Airforce or Police. Sikhs are not being singled out. It is the
treatment of Soldiers overall which has a lot left wanting. Take the case of
Lt. Sourabh Kalia. His father is still fighting for justice to his son (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6j8YDkvvCB8).
Saurabh Kalia From
Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Captain Saurabh Kalia Born 30 June 1976 Amritsar,
India Died 21 June 1999 (aged 22) Allegiance India Serv...
Friend 1, every
citizen in India is fighting for one issue or the other. The genesis of each is
the same two things - 1. Our Politician's policy to keep us divided or cornered
to keep them in Power. 2. They want the whole Justice system to be weak and
Bureaucracy to be ineffective for them to continue like this to eternity.
(Friend 1) 1. Your response and argument is no
different from any typical Hindu – who does not have any appetite to digest
appreciation of Sikhs either in India or Outside India by UK or US. When Sikh
Army served took part in WW-I/II at that time India was ruled by British
hence they all right to mention British Homeland.
2. I have explained what Divide and Rule is? But to you appreciation of Gallant Soldiers by British is Divide and Rule that is vague conclusion; this conclusion very much justifies the hatred of Hindus against Sikhs. Any Hindu cannot accept that why Sikh with insignificant population are praised for their courage and valor.
3. Battle of Saraghi is another example when Sikh showed their courage and valor drew standing ovation from the members of Parliament of the United Kingdom.The saga of Saragarhi was also brought to the notice of Queen Victoria.Queen Victoria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi
4. Sikhs were betrayed in Jallianwala Bagh not by Britishers though by Brahamans of India.
5. Since quote so much history but you may not be aware of the fact your beloved Indira Gandhi, Mother India quoted by Hindu Nationalist Amitabh Bachchan, had blood of Gangu Brahman who was a cook at times of Guru Gobind Singh and responsible for execution of Chotte Sahibzades.
6. Though Ku Klux Klan might have been founded by democrats but no supported by any currently and any association with Ku Klux Klan is an offense vs RSS Bajrang Dal are openly supported/funded by BJP.
7. Typical Hindu like you is averse to Khalistan because it will emerge out on world map as a strong and powerful nation like Israel – Israel came to existence when Nazis committed Genocide of Jews.
8. I don’t care what opinion you have for me and Sikhs our demand is justified as we are tired to as protectors of Hindu faith, you have to stand up for you self.
2. I have explained what Divide and Rule is? But to you appreciation of Gallant Soldiers by British is Divide and Rule that is vague conclusion; this conclusion very much justifies the hatred of Hindus against Sikhs. Any Hindu cannot accept that why Sikh with insignificant population are praised for their courage and valor.
3. Battle of Saraghi is another example when Sikh showed their courage and valor drew standing ovation from the members of Parliament of the United Kingdom.The saga of Saragarhi was also brought to the notice of Queen Victoria.Queen Victoria http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saragarhi
4. Sikhs were betrayed in Jallianwala Bagh not by Britishers though by Brahamans of India.
5. Since quote so much history but you may not be aware of the fact your beloved Indira Gandhi, Mother India quoted by Hindu Nationalist Amitabh Bachchan, had blood of Gangu Brahman who was a cook at times of Guru Gobind Singh and responsible for execution of Chotte Sahibzades.
6. Though Ku Klux Klan might have been founded by democrats but no supported by any currently and any association with Ku Klux Klan is an offense vs RSS Bajrang Dal are openly supported/funded by BJP.
7. Typical Hindu like you is averse to Khalistan because it will emerge out on world map as a strong and powerful nation like Israel – Israel came to existence when Nazis committed Genocide of Jews.
8. I don’t care what opinion you have for me and Sikhs our demand is justified as we are tired to as protectors of Hindu faith, you have to stand up for you self.
en.wikipedia.org
The Battle of
Saragarhi was fought during the Tirah Campaign on 12 September 1897 between twenty-one
Sikhs of the 4th Battalion (then 36th Sikhs) of the Sikh Regiment of British
India, defending an army post, and 10,000 Afghan and Orakzai tribesmen. The
battle occurred in the North-West Frontier Pro...
1. If Sikh keep
and pray Weapons he is tagged as “Ugarvadi” Hindu like Modi does the same he is
a “Desh Bhagat”
2. 3-weeks ago RSS
monkeys had a procession in Jalandhar with Swords Govt either State or Central
did not saw anything wrong with it vs if Sikh does the same Govt blame us –
that we are trying to destabllize the state govt and tranquility.
Now I respectfully
ask you to quit arguing about my faith and verity. I am Sikh who is does not
want to associate himself Hindus - I am Khalistani if you are unhappy with it
thats your quandary not mine. As I said before if you or any Hindu wants us a
part of main stream of Bharat - accept 84 was Genocide deliver justice
establish equal rights.
For us today is
the day when coward Hindus showed there valor by killing innocent men/children
and raped/killed Sikh women for what? Coz bitch Gandhi who ordered to demolish
Harmandir Sahib.
I have heard and
read enough of your spurious Divide and Rule justifications .....
(Manish Saini) I believe that the debate is going beyond logic and is getting
into the domain of Sentiments and thus would like to rest my case now. But
before I do that, I would just want to make one observation where you have
tried to make a generalization. I have said it before and am emphatically
putting it again – I believe in neither Hinduism or Sikhism or any other
religion by which people are divided. I am atheist.
I hope that the
Logic would prevail over the sentiments.
